With A Little Help From My Homosexual Friends
My post today is part of the Bridging the Gap Synchroblog. The purpose of this synchroblog is to share positive stories, ideas, suggestions on how we can bridge the gaps between people on the topic of faith and sexuality. Another way to put it is, “How can we embody mutual honour and respect in our conversations and relationships with those with whom we may disagree on the topic of homosexuality?”
(After this post had been published for a few weeks I learned that the term homosexual is offensive to many in the LGBTQ community. I was unaware of this and will know better in the future. Please accept my sincere apologies for this faux pas.)
It may surprise you to find out that a straight, fifty something, evangelical (that label doesn’t fit so well in the last couple of years), Christian woman can be taught some valuable lessons about faith, hope and love from homosexuals – but it’s true.
I have learned a lot about love from friends of mine who are homosexual. I have seen some of the most Christ like love and grace demonstrated by some of my friends who are homosexual. I have seen them love their families even when they were rejected, I have seen them love their neighbors even when they were treated like they were a criminal in the neighborhood and I have seen them love their church community even when they were not allowed to serve and participate in the church after they were honest about their sexual orientation. I have seen them show concern for those who are uncomfortable with their sexual orientation, in fact I have even seen them broken hearted for the ones that seem to be hurt by their sexual orientation and I have seen them be forgiving to those who come to their senses and sincerely express sorrow for the way they have treated homosexuals. My love is often less Christ like. I tend to love those who agree with me and like me; or those who look to me for help and make me feel special; or those who treat me like a first class citizen and notice that I have something valuable to contribute – but through the help of my friends who are homosexual I am learning to love better.
I think it is sad but I often see my friends who are homosexuals have very low expectations of Christians in general. Most of the time they just hope that Christians won’t be mean to them. You would think that Christians would be a little more in touch with the concept that everyone is valuable and should be loved and cared for and respected, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. I personally think that Christians should be expected to demonstrate an extravagant and beautiful love that shocks the world – instead it seems that we can shock the world with a little tolerance these days. However, even though my homosexual friends seem to have low expectations of Christians, they haven’t lost hope. They are some of the most hopeful, resilient and persevering people I know. They hope for a day when they won’t be judged because of their sexual orientation, a time when they can marry the person they love and don’t have to worry that they won’t be allowed to participate or be hired because they are homosexual. They hope for a day when their character and their actions and their talents will be as important to others as the fact that they are attracted to the same sex – for a day they aren’t made to feel ashamed or guilty for the way they are naturally. I have a tendency to stop hoping if things don’t go my way after a while, I don’t want to deal with the disappointment, I don’t want to hope for something I might not see come to fruition in my lifetime…but through the help of my friends who are homosexual I am learning to not give up so quickly, to be more resilient, to persevere when things don’t seem to be getting better – I am learning to hope more.
My friends who are homosexual have also taught me a lot about what it means to keep the faith. I often wonder what I would have done if I was gay. Would I be faithful to Christ or would I have just given up on the whole thing because of the way I was treated by Christians? Would I have continued to attend church, to read the bible, to sing worship songs? knowing that so many hurtful things had been said about homosexuals and done to homosexuals in the name of Christ. I am in awe of the way my Christian friends who are homosexuals remain faithful to following Christ and trying to live a Christ like life. They haven’t seen that much Christ like behavior committed by Christ followers and yet they are still faithful to believe that Christ is loving and good and worthy of following. I don’t know if my faith would have been so enduring but with a little help from my Christian friends who are homosexuals I am learning what it means to keep the faith.
With a little help from my homosexual friends I am learning to love better, to hope more and to keep the faith.
Of course I could tell you some stories of homosexuals who aren’t good examples of faith, hope and love – but I am afraid that in between the lines of those stories we would have to point out that they had some pretty good reasons for their lack of faith, hope and love – reasons like being made fun of and ridiculed, being rejected and treated like second class citizens, reasons like shame induced bible studies and people telling them that they have “chosen” wrong and should change that which they are powerless to change, reasons like not being loved or respected or cared for, reasons that would cause most of us to give up on faith, hope and love….but I think that it serves all of us much better – that it has the greatest potential to bridge the gap – if we look for the good – if we gain some humility and become people who can learn from each other – if we take a long hard look at ourselves through the eyes of others.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13:13
You can find the other synchroblog participants here.
July 7, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Grace,
Thank you for replying to my post but please understand that l don’t go around telling people that they are living in sin as though I am the sin police, I am actually one who many would describe as one that do not condemn but restore. I am a big believer in restoration, I have a couple of spiritual daughters who are living in this sin. I love them but I love the Lord more, I received some of your responses to my initial post for some counsel on this issue and I acknowledge some good points, thank you. I just want you to know that a person, who cheats on thier spouse is call an adultery or do you suppose we don’t say that and call them as people with healthy sexual appetites, I would like to express to you as I would anyone who is a Christian(Gay or straight), we can’t be better people if we don’t all heal from our ailments(sin) or at least try very hard… sorry to anyone who is offended, truly not my purpose and I am sorry if I did. My dedication of my faith is also my dedication to grow more in grace like my Lord.
July 7, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Pastor P.W. – I am glad to know that you don’t feel burdened to point out people’s sins to them and glad to know that you love people that you believe are sinning. I would say that I don’t think that it is clear that homosexuality is a sin the way it is clear that cheating on one’s spouse is a sin. I do think we all have stuff that we need to change but I don’t think that sexual orientation is something that someone chooses for themselves and that makes it very different and it becomes hurtful when we use other sins like adultery to compare it to. I am sorry for jumping to the conclusion that you were feeling the responsiblity to tell homosexuals that you know that they are sinning. I know that a lot of Christians feel that is a loving thing to do and not necessarily in a mean way and so I thought maybe that you were in that situation. I guess I should have asked in what ways are you struggling specifically in being loving towards homosexuals?
July 10, 2009 at 7:58 am
Sarah,
Thank you, for you have given me what I was looking for, this is what I already do. I DON’T seperate any sin and I’ved even spoke in the pulpit about that, if you lie it is no different according to the law than if you steal, they both are under the law. I have been doing right, in handling my homosexual brethen. I feel about homosexuals the way I do about drunks, liars and etc., I LOVE THEM!!! in other words, I love the person I hate the sin and that’s with ANYONE!!!, thank you Sarah for obviously some very wise and honest insight, you are a blessing at this moment. I think all of my post have been misinterpreted because I have wrote about my desire to grow more wise in dealing with people coming to my ministry and also based upon the “Gracerules weblog title” and I never intended to make it seem as though I am seperating homosexuals from anyone else. I want to say that I agree with you as I have expounded upon this in my teachings, that at the cross is all that has gone against God in the redemptive work of God-Himself as in the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth. We all have to be forgiven and love one another, which is the 2nd of all law and commandments… “Love thy neighbor as thyself”, I know you were not talking particularly about me but I never would EVER say that homosexuality is the most evil of all, NO! actually it is… PRIDE! (the 1st sin recorded in scripture), I would hope that’s the reason one of our singers who is dealing with homosexuality has said to me… “that she wanted to die before she found our church and that she loves her Pastor because I accepted her as she was”, so I think maybe without knowing you helped me but I pray no one misunderstood my heart, thank you.
July 13, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Sarah and Pastor P.W. – I am glad that you two have been able to help each other and encourage one another but something that was said has me thinking and wanting to give you something more to think about.
One thing I wonder – and I say I wonder because I am not gay and so I don’t have first hand experience – how does a gay person who is a Christian and does not believe that homosexual behavior is sinful (as long as it is loving, monogamous) feel about hearing a pastor or youth minister or anyone in a position of mentor/shepherd/leader/teacher say “boldly” that it is.
If you study scripture and the historical context and original language you begin to see that it is not that black and white and then you take into account that homosexuals do not choose to be homosexual and you begin to realize that homosexuals haven’t had something happen to them to make them homosexual and their parents haven’t caused them to be homosexual (studies have proven these things are not true) and you start to realize that even though you believe it is wrong you can’t be sure – and if you can’t be sure you have to ask if you should speak so boldly – and if you can’t be sure you have to ask should you want to stop them from having loving, monogamous relationships or stop them from getting married.
If homosexuality is not a sin then a great injustice is being done and much heartache is being put on homosexuals without good cause.
I guess what I am saying is that I don’t think I can agree that speaking boldly about homosexuality being a sin can be helpful to anyone. It is just not clear enough for anyone to speak about it being sin with certainty. It sounds prideful. I think we should be humble about our ability to know if homosexuality is a sin or not and then we can realize and admit that even though we believe with conviction one way or the other we may be wrong and so we should be careful about insisting we are right. I think we should pay as much attention to “how we believe” as to “what we believe”. After all, history proves to us that very well meaning followers of Christ have ended up being wrong about a lot of things that they believed with certainty.
And finally I have to say that I think the burden of proof must lie with those who are saying homosexuality is a sin – homosexuals who do not choose to be homosexual should have no responsibility in having to prove that their sexual orientation is wrong.
July 13, 2009 at 2:10 pm
oops – that last line should have read – “no responsibility in having to prove that their sexual orientation is “not” wrong.
July 15, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Gracerules – I believe you some good thoughts here but some of the arguments being made, although with good intension it does only make it seem like there might be some confusion on your part.
First, the bible is very clear on what sin is.
Second, people will forever debate on the issue and will forever misinterpret what the bible says and react based upon their understanding. This by no means invalidates the scriptures but rather more of an issue with the exegesis done by the reader.
Ex. Sometimes people want to validate their believe and so they’ll find scriptures to try and validate their belief rather than allowing for the context of scripture to speak for itself. Taking one’s beliefs and trying to find the scripture verses to prove one’s belief is called Icegesis but taking what the scriptures teach us and the context of the message without our biases and allowing for the scriptures to teach us is what is called Exegesis. The moment we want the scriptures to say that God created a person gay or “I was born gay” and try to find the scriptures to prove our feelings is right and good then we cease to allow for the scriptures to speak for itself. As my bible college instructor once said, “context, context, context … context is everything … ”
Now, pending on how a person understands what the scriptures teach is a different story altogether and because so many people believe different it’s really hard not to find any confusion.
And then, to understand this issue people really need to take a good and very long look at the research that has already been done in regards to the roots of homosexuality. None of the research to date affirms that people are born gay although people are quick to make a theory fact.
Third, I really believe that there are many who want to respond better like Pastor PW and speak from a place with good intention but unfortunately not many people are like Pastor PW. who make efforts to see the individual person rather then the “issue” they may see.
July 15, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Pastor PW – I love your heart. I agree with much of what you say and I don’t make this comment to necessarily disagree with you or to come against what you said in any way but I have to say something in regards to one comment made and I hope that you receive this in the light in which it is given. I believe it will also improve the way you communicate with people in your church and those with same gender attraction.
You referred to this one phrase often used but unfortunately the well intended message is not received because in how it mistranslates to your intended audience.
“Love the sinner but hate the sin …”
That mistranslates and what people will automatically hear is the word “hate” and so while I know what you mean and what you’re saying with this sentence the intended audience won’t receive that phrase in the light in which you have given it simply because they only see and hear the word hate.
Especially too, when a person closely identifies with their sexual orientation … ie. they believe they were born gay and don’t believe that they way they were born is sinful … they will only translate your intended message that there is something wrong and faulty about them as a person. And so therefore, although you don’t say this they will understand this to mean that you hate them and judge them.
So, it is my suggestion that you work around that phrase.
Secondly, I don’t think that Jesus ever used the term hate with any of his encounters with people. He always pointed the person to a life that was more fulfilling then the life they were currently living.
To the self-righteous individual he revealed his wrath and not only took the time to build his wip but thought very carefully in how he would use his wip. Ironically, he used it on those who hindered the gentiles from entering into a relationship with God because of their “church duties” they made the gentile court into a buying a selling/ trading place rather than the place of the gentiles to meet with God. They hindered the gentiles from a relationship with God. They pushed the gentiles away.
I would like to add more … and like to share with you personally more but out of respect to gracerules I think it would be best and more appropriately done from my blog.
You can visit my blog at http://sarahmelnychuk.blogspot.com
and you can also read my contribution on the Synchroblog.
Sincerely,
Sarah Melnychuk.
July 13, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Grace,
The one thing I would like to say is that I hope no one who is dealing with this assumes that I am monster-sizing them or trying to make them feel bad. Once again if we were talking about alcoholics, people sleeping with someone there not married too,it’s all the same I would say: “sin” but I am a Pastor that does not believe in condemnation but I believe in restoration, and it is not my job to change anyone that belongs to the Spirit of the Lord. I will NEVER! (said w/love) defend the scriptures,NEVER!, if I get into the exegetical(Analyzing of scripture) with you then that diminishes Christ, so I will not, I do respect your view. I end this post with this, Do you believe in human beings including those that practice any sin nature, if so let’s choose which to call sin and which to NOT!, we(Humans) are in control, Yeah! and that’s worked well so far. Let’s all make drunks of ourselves(So no one can get the world moving forward and God in His Infinite wisdom design for His creative work to procreate( so God decided at birth ) this person will meet this person to not procreate, which is normal. If normality of the order of procreation is one plants and the other must birth or hold in a womb, to further produce life, and if you(WHO SEEM TO HAVE A SOMEWHAT GRASP OF UNDERSTANDING) read in scripture where it states that God created man in His own image then calls an act an abomination then aren’t you calling God an abomination. NOW I KNOW THIS SOUNDS HARSH BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT HARSH I WROTE THIS WITH TRULY A LOVER OF HUMANITY HEART!
July 14, 2009 at 10:16 am
Pastor P.W. – I appreciate your concern but let me say I personally do not see you as a bad person. We are having a respectful discussion with one another. We are not trying to ridicule or trash one another. What I am speaking with you about are people who do not beleive that homosexuality is a sin in a loving and monogamous relationship. They believe that it is okay to date, kiss, hold hands (all the normal dating stuff) with someone of the same sex and to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex in marriage (granted they may not be able to be married in the legal sense but they can make the same kind of commitment). I am talking with you about how difficult it is for you to connect with those people due to the fact that you seem “certain” that you are absolutely right in believing that homosexuality is a sin. I am appealing to your humility about you being able to “know” this (or anything for that matter) for sure. I am not trying to convince you to believe differently but I am challenging “how you believe”. I see your pride of belief (not so much what you believe) as your biggest obstacle when it comes to connecting to homosexuals.
I may misunderstand what you are saying about humans being in control but I think you were saying that it doesn’t work for humans to be in control of what to call sin and that you were insinuating that I may be picking and choosing. I want to reassure you that I am not “just” picking and choosing. Someone very close to me has been the cause of me delving into this subject very seriously, very prayerfully and very studiously. Because of what I had been taught by others I initially expected to be able to find enough evidence to support the idea that homosexuality was a sin and to my surprise I was not able to find enough evidence. I will say that to some degree we humans are unfortunately in charge of what we call sin as we are always depending upon our interpretation of the evidence we find. Our best hope is to try and look at the evidence without prejudice – we know that is not entirely possible – to some degree our knowing and understanding is affected by our own perspective, experiences, culture etc – but I believe that it is possible for us to struggle enough that the spirit of God can break in through some cracks and reveal some things to us. Most of the time these glimpses and revelations show me that I don’t know as much as I thought I did and that many things are concealed in the mystery of God.
I don’t believe using the holiness code out of Leviticus is helpful in any way as we would also have to agree that eating shrimp is a sin since it is also called an abomination. Leviticus was a holiness code written for a certain time, place and people and for a particular purpose. Of course we don’t believe that it is a sin to eat shellfish or to have a particular haircut or get a tatoo or to wear clothes made of blended fabrics….at least I think we would be hard pressed to find someone who believed “all” of those things are sin. My point is that we can’t really use Leviticus unless we are willing to adhere to the whole of Leviticus and so saying homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus is not helpful. I also believe, after much study and thought, that the word translated abomination does not necessarily refer to a moral sin but can refer to a prescribed ritual – that seems to make a lot more sense when you look at some of the things called an abomination.
The creation story is a more compelling argument but as we look further we see that same sex relations is normal in other parts of nature and we also must consider that if sex is just for procreation then it might be a sin for people to have sex unless they were able and willing to procreate…that certainly would not make sense as there is no evidence that it is sinful for a married couple to have sex if they are not able to have children. So as emotionally compelling as the creation story is for me I come to the conclusion that it is not enough evidence for me to believe that homosexual practice is sinful.
This has been a long process for me. It was difficult for me to put away my preconceptions and to try and look at what was before me without prejudice (except for the prejudice of love which I try to hang onto). It was difficult for me because I am not attracted to the opposite sex and so I cannot relate to that and have sort of grown up with the “ick” factor when it comes to homosexuality. It was difficult for me because I had pride and didn’t want to have to admit to myself or to anyone else that I had been wrong for so long.
Can I say that I know for sure that homosexual behavior is not a sin? No, I can’t say for sure….but I think that it would be more wrong and more displeasing to God for me to say it is a sin without enough evidence because in that case I would be committing an injustice against people and so since I cannot find enough evidence it would be an unjust act for “me” to say homosexual behaviour is a sin. I think the burden of proof has to be with those who say homosexual behavior is sinful and I am not able to bear that burden.
July 14, 2009 at 11:27 am
Jules,
I love you(That’s what’s important. I don’t get caught up in showing that a person is wrong, people will believe what they want as long as all line up within them(Same as believers, I guess thats why RADICAL Muslims feel their belief is it and where in the bible does it say their wrong, some will argue that too) I just believe (Not a dogma belief) but simply a natural conclusion that if we continue in not admitting (What is, as it is)then we all suffer. I am not saying that anyone is perfect because none of us are, all I am saying is that : “Where the scripture speaks, WE ought to speak; Where the scriptures DO NOT speak, we ought not to speak”. This is taught in scholarly levels of religious studies for the purpose of Christians(us) including those that practice sin-natures to not be “Carried about with any wind of doctrine”… Eph.4:14 , but Grace made a point about levitical law which is expounded upon by “The Pauline additions” which is not just OT law but new covenant as well which makes procreation extremely relevant, extremely!. You made a statement that we are to act as a community of believers(Absolutely) but I remind you of an African proverb about it taking a village, to raise a child. If I do not speak to my brother or sister of what I see AND THEM LIKEWISE! then I am negating that proverb and also negating the 2nd of all commandment… “Loving neighbor as thyself”. I will say as Christians, we MUST be bound by do’s and don’t because ANY Christian is commanded to be, that’s why we don’t do what the Lord says is not of Him. Grace has been extended unto man, not by me but by the Lord so with that I love men & women but I hate sin.
The scripture teaches us to press towards the mark(Perfected work, that is to say a mature self, rightly dividing the word of truth, Rightly)not as we (Christians) but as is written. The canon of scripture is for two purposes:Love & Forgiveness. If you love another person and you’re in a monogamous relationship that you truly love that person and you’re homosexual(Great!), REALLY! , I can LOVE this woman, truly and one day going to marry her but I am not married to her(But we’re going to one day), so because I truly LOVE her, we’re going to have sex as much as we want to, as Christians we call that fornication, I think it’s great they truly LOVE each other but I believe LOVING THE LORD! is more true. I love anyone who reads this that is struggling, I will not go into levitical law on this blog because it is an exegetical study only, not to pick a verse understand a little of a dialect translation and run with that, so please forgive me. Grace and Jules, you guys are great! No matter what or who you are, I love you, both. An additional point in all the scriptures, we are taught to love and extend grace to each other but NOWHERE!!!! does it say to accept that which the Lord says is; sin-nature! Love and sin are seperate, not the same, that why at birth we’re closer to the enemy than we are God, we must find our way back to Him, not Him to us.
P.S. Forgive any grammatical or pronunciation errors, English in college was my weakest subject, I pray your understanding.
In His Service by Grace,
Pastor P.W.
July 14, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, one more thing. Someone you might want to look into, while you wait on my reply, is Andrew Marin, if you haven’t already. He wrote a book “Love Is An Orientation” and he has a blog as well.
http://love-is-an-orientation.blogspot.com/
This might be a helpful resource to you.
July 14, 2009 at 8:29 pm
My strength isn’t exegetical work. Never has. My strength is in relational study. I leave that for others to do. Which I guess is the beauty of the fellowship of believers.
I don’t want to give you the idea I think I can change your mind. I don’t think I can. My intention is this, to help you in some way to be able to bridge with those you say are coming to your gathering. So to say I’ll talk about if homosexuality is a sin or not just isn’t going to happen.
I want to bring out a point with something you say. You speak on how you “love me”. I know in our Christian culture we are used to saying that. Why not. We are suppose to be a family of Christ called to “love” one another. I think, however, we kind of skew this. We word play. We say, “I love the sinner, but hate the sin.” This is no where found in scripture. In some ways its just a nice way to say I don’t like you. See, I know many who tell me they love me, but at the end of the day they do not like me. Now, you cannot say truly say you do like me or not, we don’t have any background with one another. However, what I have found is more real is to stop word playing. One thing I have learned from my journey is that my issues were never with the fact that God loved me, it was the fact that I didn’t believe he liked me. I believe we are taught God loves us, but we don’t accept Jesus likes us. In the LGBT community we feel this the most. “Love the sinner, hate the sin” and many other words that are hurled at us let it be known we aren’t truly liked. Which gets in the way of the gospel.
Which is more important? To say to someone, “listen, I don’t know the answers. let’s just talk.” No agenda but to learn from one another and let the Spirit take over. At the end of the day what is more important? The fact someone come to know Christ or that we prove whatever “lifestyle” they live is wrong so that then they can come to know Christ?
I can firmly tell you that the exception is not the rule. Many of us have prayed and done all kinds of things to fit the Christian world says we should. Many times by doing this it has been more damaging. Too many LGBT have left their faith because they couldn’t “pray away the gay.” Many go even further. The stats of teen suicide on this matter is too high. My therapist (when I was in therapy) shouldn’t have applauded me for keeping my faith through my process because I was the first in a long time to make it clear that God was my number one and I did NOTHING without his peace. This alone should tell the Christian community that if any thing the delivery in the “message” is wrong. It isn’t just because we are a stubborn lot or that our hearts are SO hardened.
Ok, I have to stop here. I apologize. My gf is needing my attention right now.
Blessings!
July 14, 2009 at 3:25 pm
HI PW!
I wanted acknowledge your post. Today I am extremely tired. I went to St. Louis for the weekend and put off my homework. So yesterday and I paid for my weekend of fun. Anyway, I will get back to you, I promise. I’m just brain fried at the moment and need some rest. Business and Ethics takes a lot of focus for me because I delve so deep into the subject matter. Anyway, I wanted you to know I have seen this and will get come back to it. Thank you for responding and I will do my best to do the same in a timely manner.
Peace-
Jules
July 14, 2009 at 3:26 pm
um, it should say, “SO yesterday and TODAY I paid for it….” UGH, nap time.
July 14, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Jules,
I hope your weekend was fun, I’m sure you deserve it, I look forward to hearing from you, be Kind to me!(I don’t know how to do a smiley face but put one>HERE!)
Love,
P.W.
July 14, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Jules,
Something you should understand about me is I never take referrals without research and FOR YOU!, I will research this person, so for now I digress?
Love,
P.W.
July 14, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Please research him. I don’t think you’ll find anything that will offend you or disagree with. I passed his blog along to you because I thought you might find some answers there. Andrew decided to live in Boys Town in Chicago, IL. Boys Town in a gay community. Anyway, he attends a conservative seminary in Chicago and has been trying to live within the gay community to find another way to “bridge the gap” (as it were) to the christian community and to the LGBT. I thought you might find his book and possibly his blog helpful. I have not read his book, but I have read his blog. I find him encouraging and at the same time not sure how I feel about him. I like knowing where people stand. LOL Its the one place I am for black and white. HA Anyway, I hope he gives you some insight. More in a moment.
July 14, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Jules,
OOPS! it should say “so FOR YOU”
July 14, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Jules- Thanks for taking the time to come and have this conversation. I know are busy with school and homelife and appreciate the time you took out.
July 15, 2009 at 8:51 am
your welcome!
you have been such a support in our short time of getting to know each other. love to support ppl I believe in. 
and again, if sharing my story helps someone here or any where I’ll do it.